Stop Playing Small in Corporate

Why High Performers Need to Stop Proving Their Value by Doing More

Week 4 of The Trust Tax Investigation: How We Break the Cycle

• You work hard.
• You're reliable.
• You take responsibility.
• You make sure things get done.

And somewhere along the way, you may have learned a story that sounds something like this:

• If I keep doing great work, eventually I'll be recognized for it.

 So you keep giving.

You absorb another responsibility.

You help someone else succeed.

You make sure the team is okay.

And when the recognition, promotion, compensation, or opportunity doesn't follow?

You may respond by doing even more.

In this episode of The Trust Tax Investigation, I sit down with Catherine Lang-Cline, who built and sold a multimillion-dollar company and then wrote The Rules of the Game for Women in Business.

Catherine learned something while building her company: she had been playing by rules that encouraged her to be polite, humble, grateful—and smaller than she actually was.

Then someone gave her a simple piece of advice:

You're the CEO. Start introducing yourself like one.

That seemingly small shift changed the way Catherine entered rooms, talked about her expertise, built relationships, and eventually grew her business. 

But our conversation goes much further than confidence.

We talk about what happens when being reliable becomes part of your identity.

When being needed feels good.

When responsibility keeps accumulating.

And when you become so focused on helping everyone else succeed that you forget to ask:

What am I getting in return for the value I'm creating?

Catherine's answer is clear:

Stop playing small.

In this episode, we explore:

•  How reliability can help you succeed—and eventually keep you stuck 
•  Why capable people often keep accumulating responsibility instead of advocating for advancement 
•  How to communicate your expertise without minimizing yourself 
•  Why you should be able to explain how your work contributes to the organization's bottom line 
•  The difference between being appreciated and being appropriately recognized and compensated 
•  Why advocating for yourself isn't the same thing as being selfish 
•  How champions and cheerleaders can help you step into opportunities before you think you're ready 
•  Why high performers need to stop waiting for someone else to recognize their value 
•  What Catherine means when she says it's time to stop playing small 

The Trust Tax Investigation

This conversation gives us another answer to our Week 4 question:

How do we break the cycle?

One way is to stop proving our value by continually taking on more.

The story may say:

I'm responsible.

They need me.

I'm good at this.

I should be grateful for the opportunity.

Eventually, they'll recognize everything I'm doing.

But being valuable doesn't require becoming responsible for everything.

Catherine challenges us to do something different:

Know the value you create.

Say it.

Advocate for it.

Ask for the opportunity.

Ask for the compensation.

And if an organization continually benefits from what you contribute without recognizing or rewarding it, give yourself permission to consider whether there's another organization that will. 

That's not caring less.

It's recognizing that you belong in the equation too.

One Question to Take With You

If you're the person everyone describes by saying:

"I don't know what we'd do without her..."

Catherine gives us an important follow-up question:

Are you being recognized, developed, and compensated accordingly? 

Because being indispensable isn't the same thing as advancing.

And being appreciated isn't always the same thing as being rewarded.

Rewrite Your Story

That's why this final week of The Trust Tax Investigation leads directly into Rewrite Your Story.

For four weeks, we've been identifying the patterns.

Now we have to look at the stories underneath them.

Maybe yours says:

• I have to prove myself.
• Good work will eventually speak for itself.
• I shouldn't ask for too much.
• Being a good leader means taking care of everyone else.

Those stories may have helped create your success.

Start Your Own Trust Tax™ Investigation

See the pattern. Listen for the story. Decide what you want to carry forward.

🔎 Take the free Trust Tax™ Assessment
Discover the responsibility and leadership patterns most likely to contribute to burnout before burnout becomes the whole story. About 7 minutes, with immediate personalized results.
https://unceilingzone.com/start-trust-tax-assesssment

🎟️ Join us for Rewrite Your Story — October 15
A leadership workshop + live comedy show at Walsh College in Troy, Michigan with Natalie H. Luke, Ph.D. and Merit Kahn.
https://rewriteyourstoryevent.com

Connect with Catherine Lang-Cline

Catherine Lang-Cline is an entrepreneur, mentor, and author of The Rules of the Game for Women in Business. After building and selling a multimillion-dollar company, she now shares the lessons she learned about relationships, visibility, advocacy, and navigating the unwritten rules of business. 

🌐 Website: CatherineLangCline.com

📖 Book: The Rules of the Game for Women in Business

💼 LinkedIn: Catherine Lang-Cline on LinkedIn

Follow The Trust Tax Investigation

Week 1: When Success Becomes a Trap
Week 2: Why Does This Happen?
Week 3: How Organizations Support Burnout
Week 4: How We Break the Cycle

Subscribe to UnCeiling You on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 1:01

Welcome to the Unsealing You podcast. I'm Dr. Natalie Luke, your host. And since July the 20th, we've been conducting what I've called the trust tax investigation. We started with a question. How can someone who is successful, capable, and trusted end up being so burned out? In week one, we looked at when success becomes the trap. We saw how being dependable, capable, and willing to take responsibility can slowly turn into doing more than your share. You keep delivering, so from the outside, everything looks fine, even when it's costing you. Then in week two, we asked, why does this happen? We looked underneath the behavior at the expectations, the identity, the chronic pressure, and the nervous system. We began to see why high performers don't simply wake up one morning and decide to overwork. The pattern develops over time. Eventually, what is unsustainable can start to feel normal. Then in week three, we widened the lens to look at how the organization supports burnout. Because burnout isn't an individual problem. When dependable people repeatedly step in, solve the problem, absorb unfinished work, or compensate for unclear ownership, the organization can begin to rely on the workaround. The work is done, but the underlying problem doesn't get fixed. And that is where the trust tax becomes expensive for the people, operations, and the business. So now we've reached the most important part of the investigation. What do we do about it? This week is about breaking the cycle. Because once you see the pattern, you have a choice. You can examine the story underneath it, the story being, I have to get it all done. Everybody depends on me. I have to prove myself. I can't disappoint them. This is what leadership requires. Instead, you ask, is this story still serving me? And is it keeping the entire system stuck? This week we're going to explore what happens when we change the story, change the behavior, clarify responsibility, communicate differently, and build systems where trust doesn't mean one dependable person has to do it all. We've investigated the trust text. Now it's time to start replacing it with trust alignment and sustainable results. Today I'm talking with Catherine Lang Klein, who built and sold a multimillion dollar company, and then wrote the rules of the game for women in business. Catherine helps us explore how to break the trust tax by stopping the pattern of quietly taking on more, advocating for the values we create, and giving ourselves permission to step forward instead of proving our worth through how much we carry. Let's get started. Hi Catherine, thank you so much for being on the Unsealing You podcast. I'm so happy you're here.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

It is my absolute pleasure to be with you today and with your audience.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

So you built a multimillion dollar company from scratch over 20 years, then sold it. Most people, they'd coast after that, but instead you wrote a book. What happened that made you feel like you needed to write the book?

SPEAKER_00 4:49

I think what I found out is that after I had sold the book, you know, I did miss a lot of people that I had run into before. And some people would come up to me and ask, you know, Catherine, it it's and I mentioned I I was that was working on this book, it was like a totally different subject. And I said, Well, I think what people really want to know is how you did it. Um, you know, how did you get in the room? How did you shake the hands? How did you get, you know, on the boards and win the awards and things like that? And I'm like, oh my gosh, well, that'd be an easy book to write. And like and I had thrown that idea out with a couple other people. And also I was mentoring people as well a little bit, and um, I was finding that I was repeating myself a lot with some of the things that I said that people should do. And I'm like, you know what, if I put this in a book that everybody's gonna know, you know, the secret, if you will, if if that's what it is. And um then people would also know too, like the ones that I would mentor, I could either hand them a book or reach more people if they could just go to the store and buy them. You know, I thought there was just a fair amount of intel that would help a lot of women out there.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Okay. Thank you for doing that. Now you talk about the rules that women didn't realize they're playing by. And before you figured them out, what did following the wrong rules actually cost you?

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Well, the rules that women follow, because this is how we are born and how we're trained, is to always be polite and to be humble and to be just ever so thankful for everything. And, you know, any opportunity we can have, just be just be thankful you had that opportunity, sort of thing. And I was finding that that was not getting me anywhere. I would enter rooms and I would, you know, kind of present myself in a way that was just, you know, kind of, you know, shucks, thanks for talking to me, or I I'm not worthy to talk to certain people because I haven't earned it, if you will, or I'm not on that same level, you know, I don't have you know, as much as they do, like a company as large as they do, so why would they even talk to me sort of thing? And what I realized is that men were playing by different rules, and men, you know, they are raised differently to, you know, be a little more rough and tumble. But what I was discovering is that since men started business first and have had been in business much, much longer than we have, they just kind of set up the rules as uh almost like a big sports arena. And once I realized that they're all playing like using sports terms, I mean they have they, you know, have scorecards and they have coaches and they have teams and they have huddles and they have, you know, they want to know where the puck's going at all times, sort of thing. So all this sports terminology was really starting to resonate with me the more that I hung out with the guys. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm playing a game differently. I'm playing like a spectator, I'm not playing like I'm in it. And that's what I totally switched, is like like I said, women enter, you know, kind of showing up maybe with ice skates on to the game, and then guys are all in their rugby clothes and they're like, What are they doing here? They look cute and everything, but you know, in their little skates, but they're not here to play. So once I switched all that whole mindset around, that's kind of where the code is cracked.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

So walk me into the room, you switched it around, and you're you broke the code. What what are like what's one thing that you actually did differently? Like what what was before and what was after? You talked about shucks, but can you give like a real story example?

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Absolutely. Like prior, I would enter a room and just immediately look to see if there's somebody that I knew. And maybe I'd end up talking to that person the entire time. If it was a room full of people and I was just hanging out with people that I knew, and which, you know, is lovely. And I do have a strategy in my book on how you can, you know, entertain those people and you know kind of seek the other people out. But one person had said to me that was on my advisory board, and it was a guy that said, you know, Catherine, you are the CEO of your own company. You have absolutely every right to walk over to any CEO in that room and introduce yourself. Um, because you're at, you know, it's you might have a smaller company, but you have all the same worries and concerns. And I didn't necessarily do that before. I'd introduce myself and say my company is, you know, hi I'm Catherine and my company is versus hi, I'm Catherine, I'm the CEO of this company. And once that veil was kind of lifted a little bit, I can walk into a room and talk to anybody. I don't have to make it a girls' tea party. I can go in and actually network.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

That's a really good example for sure. And I could see where you're saying, hey, I'm with such and such company really downplays the fact that you're the CEO of that company.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Right. And that was the one thing that I learned very, very early. I went to an event and I had business cards made and they were all, you know, cute and everything. And I handed them to someone and he says, Oh, it says, and hear that you're the director of of sales and and marketing. And he's like, I thought you owned it. I said, Uh yeah, I do. And he goes, Well, why aren't you the CEO over the president or something? And I'm like, huh. Because my business partner was basically the director of, you know, of the talent that we were dealing with. So we were like, I guess we wanted to be humble and modest. Like, oh, I I we could be directors of our own little departments over here. But once I got back from that event, I said, we gotta throw away these cards, we gotta do them again. We we switched it to where I was a CEO and she was a COO, and that's how people would get my car to remember it. And it and it's such again, not to you, you know, keep referring to this, but it was such a game changer to hand it to somebody, and then they knew that they were talking to one of the top dogs in the business versus somebody that was just a part of a boutique little business. I this is a startup, it's just me and my friend, you know, and that's how I would hear a lot of women introduce their company too and just say it's just small, it's very niche, it's a little boutique, and I'm like, oh, how girly. You know, the the guys want to know that there is some, you know, force behind that service if they want to use you, so you can't say it's just me. What happens to you? You know, if if something if I give you all this work and you know nobody's nobody's there, and how do I know that the work's gonna get done? You know, so we always presented ourselves, you know, much, much larger than we were as well. Good to know. Yeah, some people would just say, like I said, a lot of women are just oh, you know, it's it's just it's you know, it's me and I've had it for 10 years, and you know, and maybe I even they slip and say work out from my home. People don't need to know that. They don't. They need to know what is it that you do and what you're an expert in, and you can handle whatever problem, solve whatever problem they have. And that's what they want. And just kind of taking that stance and really being behind exactly, we know what we're doing, sort of mentality. That is how we got, especially to the larger companies.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Yeah, so I do own my own business, but I also am a full-time employee at another company. And and it's funny because I feel like I've taken ownership of both. And so when I talk to folks about the company that I work for, like my company, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, Do you own the company? And I thought, I'm talking like I have, I feel like I own, I have ownership for the women that are in corporate. What are some of the ways that they and they should step up and be bigger than they are, you know? What are some of the things they can do there to really present themselves as powerful?

SPEAKER_00 13:48

I think a lot of it just really comes from just the confidence that you can state your expertise in. There's some women that I know that work for large banks, and they will talk about how, you know, their their customer service is like some of the best in the business or things like that. Or they will say, I've been in banking for 15 years, or I've been, you know, doing this for you know, they talk a lot about their expertise that really elevates them versus hi, I worked for a bank, or you know, I've been with this bank for five years or something like that. It's and and I always tell people to take all the credit for everything. So, say, for example, maybe you were a bank teller while you were trying to get through college and then you got into a big bank. I would definitely count the years that you were a bank teller. I mean, hand-to-hand combat with the customers counts. So include that. Um, for me, when I my company was staffing and recruiting for people in just the marketing space. And, you know, we started that obviously saying, Oh, it's a very, very niche and very, you know, because it's so easy to say that because we we really want to specialize in that. And we've been doing this for like two years now. I had 15 years experience in this space. So when I started introducing that to the conversation, I was doing this for 15 years and I decided that there was a better way to do this. So now I help other companies find exactly what they need because I know exactly what they need. I I lived it, you know. And that's a much bigger, uh bigger ownership of what you're doing, and uh, you know, really sharing those expertise and the years of experience that you have that you really know what you're doing, that's really great. And and you know, rather than saying things like we as a company do all these things, you know, start focusing more on what your specializations are. My specialization is this, and that really starts setting you apart from other people too. The thing about, you know, using the same example with banking is there are you know thousands of banks out there. So what makes your special? What makes yours, you know, the place that people want to use and to work with? So really hone in on what that specialization is too.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Got it. So just going back to, you know, how women are brought up and to be nice and to be polite and and be reliable. And sometimes that reliability is the thing that got her promoted in the first place, and it makes her valuable, but talk about how that mindset can also make her stuck.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

That actually can come from a couple of different directions because sometimes you don't get promoted because you're so good at your job that they they don't want to ever worry about it. Well, if we replace her, how do we know it's gonna be as good? And what happens sometimes too is like men get a little more anxious and they will say, you know, I've been doing this for 10 years, when do I get promoted? Or women will just keep piling on, you know, I have more responsibility than need me here. It's so fun to be needed and you know, it's so warm and I'm taking care of people and stuff, but at some point you have to think about, well, what do I get out of all this hard work too? Am I preparing myself for my future, for my future growth, for my financial growth? A lot of women get really lost in that responsibility part, and uh that uh I hate to use the term, like you know, our maternal instinct is a real thing. You know, we want to make sure everybody is cared for and everything is running smoothly and we're the peacemakers. But sometimes we have to push back and say, you know what, I've done a lot for this company and I have some numbers approve it, and here's how it's grown, and here's how I have contributed to the bottom line. And I feel that I either need a raise or a promotion. And if you truly believe this and it doesn't happen, you know, be brave enough too to just say, you know, maybe somebody else will appreciate this.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

For the past four weeks, the trust tax investigation has been following a pattern. A capable person becomes what others can depend on. More responsibility follows, they adapt, they compensate, they find ways to keep everything moving. And because the work keeps getting done, the pattern can become almost invisible. But this week, we're not just investigating the pattern. We're asking, how do we break it? And what we're hearing from our guests is breaking the cycle, it doesn't mean caring less, achieving less, or becoming less dependable. It means doing something differently. It can mean communicating for connection instead of trying to get everything exactly right. It can mean stopping the need to prove your value by how much you carry and advocating for the value you already create. It can mean separating your identity from being the person everybody needs and developing others instead of continually stepping in. And sometimes it happens in a single moment when you notice yourself about to please, perform, stay silent, or take something on that isn't yours. And it is different. That's where rewriting your story begins. Because the story may say, I have to do it. It's easier if I just deter. But when we change the story, we change the behavior. And when enough behaviors change, we begin changing the system. So see the story, change the belief, set the boundary, build trust, lead differently. That's how we begin replacing the trust pact with trust alignment and sustained impact. Now, let's get back to the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Ellen too, you know, you have to promote yourself sometime. And I would be in jobs and I would be stuck, and there'd be like no end to when the repromotion or raise or what have you, and I would start looking for another job while I had a job, which is the best time to look, and find something that was my next step up. So yeah, you have to, again, just kind of be your biggest advocate or or cheerlead your own your own career.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

You know, I really love the the perspective and how you frame that. It's uh very clear, it's very crisp, and it's consistent. And I keep thinking about one episode I had with a lady who is a poker player. Oh, cool. Yeah, poker diva. And she talks about negotiations using poker techniques, and one of the things she she number one, she says, you don't bluff in work unless I mean you just don't, you just don't lie, but you know, it kind of harkens back to what you said. Go ahead and start looking and then say exactly what you just said. So I think pairing these two episodes together is a powerful one-to-punch for that woman who's absorbing unglamorous work, feeling like, oh, I'm in the responsibility, I'm responsible, so I am good, but not reaping the rewards of it.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Right. And it's again, it's how men play the game as well, you know, where it lets just think of like a like a baseball team. If you're a great player on a team and you never get to play, you know, or be promoted to a larger league or something like that, you have to make a choice. And that is essentially what they do. And maybe you move to another team and there you're really the rock star. You know, you everything that you did for this other company was that really appreciated. You can move somewhere else where it is and get paid for it. And again, I could never emphasize enough for women to really think about their financial futures too, because there's women that I would know that would have businesses, for example, and they would be done and they would just close. Or they would uh be done and maybe set it up as an ASOP or something else, and then you start running the risk of losing money too, you know. So it it's really thinking about when I reach, you know, I'm I'm working really hard basically, and I need to have some reward at the end of this rainbow here somewhere, and always kind of thinking about that as well, and not always about that giving, giving, giving that we tend to fall into when it comes to not just our businesses, but other businesses and and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Well, I I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I'm going to anyway.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Let's beat it.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Let's beat it, baby. So when a talented woman keeps absorbing the unglamorous work, keeps showing up for everyone else, keeps being the reliable one, who in the organization is actually benefiting from that? And is that woman aware of it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Yeah. And I think that there's a lot of women out there that, you know, they just, you know, using maybe in a role where you're somebody's assistant. You love helping that person so much and watching them grow. There is seriously nothing wrong with that. As long as you are appreciated, compensated for the more work that you do and your and your loyalty and things like that. So you don't have to necessarily, you know, conquer the mountain if you don't want to, if that's not where your comfort zone is. I think everybody is definitely capable of doing that. But I I do have run into some women who's like, I don't, I want to go so far and that's gonna be enough. Well, again, just make sure that you're getting everything that you deserve versus just being on that constant giving track or absorbing more and making other people shine. I mean, you people people know that there's always that one woman on the team that I don't know what we would do without you, you know? Is she being compensated?

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Yeah, yeah. So if you could go back to the version that you were, where you were just figuring it out and you're figuring out the rules, what would you tell her to stop doing immediately? Not reframe, just stop.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

I think it is stop playing small. You have any any growth or opportunity you have is totally in your control. And you can pull the reins back as much as you want because you're afraid to charge forward, but you're also the one that can also charge forward. And you really don't have a whole heck of a lot to lose if you're taking chances like that, like trying to make the right connections. I mean, I think people are like, I couldn't possibly be on stage and do a presentation or be in a panel or something like that. Panel discussions are so easy. If everybody asks you to do that, do it. However, people are always afraid to do that because they're like, Well, what if I don't know something? What if I, you know, fall? What what if you do? What if you do? You know what happens? Nothing. Nothing happens.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Except for maybe you entertained a few people.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Exactly. Just play it off, you know, as as you know, as uh like you know, people are they're all humans watching you. And actually it makes it more memorable if you do something like that. So don't don't let that sort of fear stop you. You're you're not gonna pass out, you're not gonna do you know, you will be perfectly fine. And that's a part of that charging ahead process is you know, just really going for those opportunities too. Like for me, like I I just felt like when I started going back to your question, is that I was playing just Really, really small, at least at the very, very beginning. But at a certain point I decided, oh, if we're gonna do this, we're gonna get back into some of the companies that we used to work for, which I can always encourage a lot of people to do too, because I worked for, you know, Fortune 100 companies before starting a business. So I'm like, you know what, we're gonna get them. But at the end of the year, they're gonna be a client. And I kind of made this my own personal goal to make that happen. And if I didn't think like that, if I didn't think big that we could tackle these huge companies, then nothing would have happened. I could have easily have just stayed very small where it was safe and comfortable. But once you got a little taste of that excitement, you know, you're like, oh, let's see who else we can get. And it it was just starting to just kind of factor in, you know, how then it was like how big do I want this versus, you know, how comfortable can I make this for myself and for all my employees? Which is lovely. Again, I think that's a lovely trait that women have in business. Some of the companies that I know that people, you know, they always win awards for you know the happiest employees and things like that. That is super wonderful, but that doesn't necessarily create growth or or move your company forward if you're just a lovely place to work.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Yeah, it's forging forward, having a mission, having a vision, and challenging yourself for sure. So, what is the hardest rule for high performing women to follow? The one that feels like it's wrong before it feels right.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

I would say interrupting people in meetings. Because that is such a hot button for women sometimes where they get interrupted in meetings. But I'm telling you that this is the way the game is played. Because if you watch what I did, I would observe other men doing this. They would interrupt each other all the time and didn't think anything of it, you know? And it wasn't done in necessarily in a hostile way, but just you know, they just would start uh you know, slowly start talking over each other, the one person would let go, and then the next person would go. And I'm like, this also is very much the you know, the way that a game is played. Because if you think about basketball, you know, we we have assists, we you know, you're closer to the basket, so I'm gonna throw it to you. And then sometimes someone just zooms in and steals a ball. And you're like, wait a second, I want the ball back, you know, so you can have that opportunity to go get it back. There are ways that women can do it that are have a little bit of a softer touch than how sometimes men will do it. Because I think what women need to understand is that whoever has the ball gets the score. And they're gonna try their hardest to score. So if you set up a nice little thing, they're gonna take that ball and they're gonna run with it. You know, if that's the case, kind of remind them that you assisted on that a little bit. And you can say things like, you know what, thanks for taking that. I'll take the taking that to the hoop because I I think I set that up for you really well, or something like that. You can, you know, kind of incorporate yourself back into that idea-making process. And what I find out too is, you know, and I have this in my book, two different ways that you can conduct yourself in a meeting where you can come off still as a very, very strong participant without having to interrupt if that is just truly a pain point for you. But I'm just saying, just give it a minute, you'll notice that that's what people do. What I like to do also is when there are people in the meeting, and I don't and they're not talking, I will ask, Did you want to add to this? Because I think sometimes sometimes people are afraid to speak up. Or um, you could just say, 'I would you agree with me, you know, so-and-so, just to kind of incorporate things. And I also do this too because this also makes you a great team player, is if somebody else has a great idea, reinforce that. You know, it could be some guy who's like, you know, here's my idea, and you're like, you know what, that's actually a really good idea. And suddenly the other chest pops up a little, and you know, you're on my team because you're my buddy now. You know, so it's little subtle things that you can do, but like I said, it it feels so wrong to interrupt because we are so, you know, you know, just instructed to just, you know, just sit and wait your turn. And, you know, people working on things like, well, we have a talking stick, and I'm like, come on, we can we can have conversation, which is what it is. You know, meetings aren't necessarily an argument, but they're discussions. And I would always find myself too just uh sometimes not get enraged just because I think about okay, this person has their opinion, I'm gonna let them get through it, and I'm gonna maybe just I'm gonna hop in and I'm gonna get a disagree here. Um, and and that's perfectly fine because that again is how it's played.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

What are some of the other gems that you feel like the high performing women will enjoy in your books?

SPEAKER_00 29:06

Um well, I talk about the power of having champions and cheerleaders. Again, sticking with my sports theme, the cheerleaders are the people that are around you and just they literally just cheer you on. And we have to always have those people around us because sometimes when we are on a track of really great growth or we step into that space where you now own a business, you do start alienating yourself from people that you normally would hang around with because they don't own a business or they're not growing exponentially like you are. And if they start turning into naysayers rather than cheerleaders, then you have to start spending a little less time with them and working, you know, more closely with people that are willing to say, you know, good for you, you you deserve this, you know, I know you can do it, you know, things like that. That's who you need to have. And the champions are the ones that actually get you in the room for places. And those are people that you can meet and befriend at net ranking events. I would sometimes work with them, you know, in organizations or things like that that I belong to. And I would say, you know, you know somebody at this company I'm really trying to get into. Would you be would you mind doing an introduction? They are perfectly fine with that. The cheerleader I like to talk about, I mean, the champion I talk about the most is uh somebody who I had worked with in an organization. You know, she just kind of knew me that I was running a business and doing, you know, pretty good at that time. And she told me that I now I am gonna have uh you're gonna be on a committee for the the chamber here. And um I was like, What? Say what? I think I'm ready. And she's like, You are. And I already gave him your name. And I was like, Okay, well, I guess you if you say so, I'm gonna do it. So I did, and it was fantastic. And I got to meet a lot of people, and I was definitely qualified to be there. And then she said, you know what, I'm rolling off, and she was a chair, and she goes, Um, I'm gonna nominate you for the chair. And I'm like, Oh, okay, well, this worked the last time, so I said, sure. And what that allowed at that point is that whoever was ahead of that got to be on the big board for the chamber. So then I got to hang out with all the people that run the energy companies and have all the larger things. But if I had really put my foot down and said, Oh my gosh, no, I'm not ready, you know, all shocks, it would never have happened. It would never have really made a change. So when I like to tell people too that, you know, with when these champions see something in you that they know you're ready for. I want you to speak for my group. I want you to join this board, I want you to, you know, be a part of this. Believe them. You are ready. And just uh take that chance, you know, that they're right because we kind of get caught in our own world and we never feel like we're ready. We're kind of doing this little two-step of do I jump? Do I jump? I'm not sure. They're there to shove you right off that cliff. Yeah. Guess what?

SPEAKER_01 31:40

You had a parachute the whole time, you didn't even know it. This is so apropos because my my daughter actually is studying abroad in Taiwan, and she's studying Mandarin, and she's had two years of Mandarin at she's gonna have a minor in in Mandarin, and then her major is in biomedical engineering.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

What a great combination! But she so she was she's so excited to be there, and and today was her second day of class, and she's like, Oh my god, mom, I was not prepared for this. It's so hard. And I'm like, you can do it. And she goes, Okay, I have a four-point plan. I'm gonna do this, then I'm gonna do this, then I'm gonna, and I'm like, you are your mom's daughter.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

You go, girl. Plan is an amazing thing for sure, you know. And I think we need to kind of do that sometimes. When when we do, maybe walk into that room, you're like, Oh, wow, what is happening here? Then you just, you know, take a half a step back and be like, all right, I have to come with my own strategy, you know, come with my own playbook on how I'm gonna manage this. And yeah, it's it's exactly that. I love that she did that, and that that obviously you're seeing that yourself in that too.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Yeah. I'm like, you're gonna, you're gonna be fine. Remember, it's gonna be tiring until week four. And then week four, it's like you take off.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Exactly. And we all like through our whole life will have moments like that. And for her, I'm hoping that she'll remember that going forward, like something else large will happen. It should be like, you know what? I was able to defeat slay that dragon, I'm on to the next one, you know, and it it it's amazing though how much the the world just kind of cracks open once you do do that.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Yeah, that's so fantastic. What do you want a woman who's listening right now, the one who's already in the room and trying to prove herself, and she's exhausted. Um, what is it that you want her to not only know, not only do, but to actually give herself permission for by the time this episode ends?

SPEAKER_00 33:42

Well, again, I'm gonna refer to like what it's like to maybe uh run onto the field of like a big game or something like that. Some you know, people have been practicing and practicing and practicing, and now it's game time. Take that deep breath and start running. And you might have to, you know, I don't want to like necessarily use the term fake it till you make it, but you sometimes do have to put a game face on and be like, all right, I'm here and I'm gonna make the most of this opportunity and I'm gonna get as many names and make as and I always refer to it as make as many friends as possible while I'm here, you know, versus saying like, well, I need to collect, you know, business cards or what have you. I like to make it say that I'm here to make some friends because I think that resonates a lot more with women, you know, trying that rather than trying to, you know, collect people like a like collecting cards or something like that. We like to make relationships and friendships and things like that. And that is what really also propelled me to go forward too is I would go into the room and approach every single person as potentially being a new friend, a new helper, a new cheerleader, a new champion. And I would do the same for them, you know, like if there's anything I can do for you, you let me know. Eventually it does come around, you're like, oh, I just can't believe that actually called me for this. But it is about, you know, you you you are tired, but you know, like sometimes you have to go, all right, it's game time. We're gonna go in there and we're gonna win this round, you know, this one round. And then you go home and take a nice, uh nice relaxing uh drink and and bath or something. But just know I gotta get through this, and once the game's over, then I can, you know, take my take my shoes off. But it we're thinking about it in a little bit of like spurts rather than uh or like sprints, if you will, it's probably a better term. Then thinking of it as just a whole big thing you have to kind of attack. It's like just on one step at a time, and this is the game today, you know, you can't go from you know being a rookie player to the World Series. You gotta go, you know, game after game after game after game. And those those series are long before you get to the end, those those seasons are long. But you just keep showing up, you know, giving your best in these little increments, and people will eventually start taking notice. And then you can, like I said, you can be tired later. That's I would always speak.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Got it. Well, thank you so much for being on Unsealing You. How do people find you?

SPEAKER_00 35:46

They can find me on LinkedIn, obviously, at Catherine Lankline. You can also go to my website, which is Katheryn Langklein.com. There's no dots or dashes in that it's you go straight through. There's also a link there for um how you can get my book. Um, there's a link there to Amazon and Barnes and Noble, but you can definitely go to any of those places directly. Um, the book is a rules of the game for women in business. And like I said, it was kind of what opened up my eyes on as far as how I can be more effective in this ever man's world that we we like to compete in.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

There you go. I'll have links in the show notes as well. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for all of your wisdom for writing the book, and I am looking forward to reading your book. Thank you. I really, really enjoyed our discussion today. About four weeks ago, we started this investigation with a question. How does success become a trap? And after these conversations, I don't think the answer is that high performers simply need to become more resilient. The trust tax showed us something more complicated. It can begin when a person proves dependable. People trust them with more. Extra responsibilities become normal. And because the person keeps getting the work done, the organization may never see what their success is concealing. Unclear ownership, unfinished work, broken processes, poor communication, or responsibilities that keep routing to the same people. Eventually, the workaround becomes the way the organization operates. The person pays through overwork, lost energy, disengagement, or burnout. The organization pays through rework, higher cost, turnover, lost capacity, and the problems that remain hidden because someone keeps compensating for them. But throughout this investigation, we discovered something underneath all of it. There is often a story keeping the pattern alive. I have to get it done. Everybody depends on me. If I don't step in, who will? I need to prove that I belong here. Leadership means caring more. These stories have helped us to become successful, but they can also keep us and the people around us stuck. And that is why the trust tax investigation leads directly to the Rewrite Your Story event. On October 15th at Walsh College in Troy, Michigan, Merritt Kahn and I are bringing this work into the room for a full-day leadership experience, followed by Merritt's live one-woman theatrical comedy show optimistic personality disorder. Makes me smile every time I say it. Because understanding the pattern is only the beginning. At Rewrite Your Story, we're going to see the story that's driving your pattern, changing the beliefs that keep it going, and setting boundaries to clarify ownership, building systems of trust instead of systems that depend on someone continually rescuing them and ultimately learning how to create results without burning out the people responsible for producing them. The workshop helps you see the story. The comedy helps you let it go. And maybe that's the most important thing this investigation has shown us. You don't have to abandon your ambition. You don't have to stop being dependable. And you don't have to care less. You can rewrite the story that says your value comes from how much you carry. You can develop other people, you can share responsibility, you can build trust without becoming trapped by it. And you can lead in a way that lifts others and releases you. Rewrite your story, break the cycle, lead differently. I'd love to see you and your team on October the 15th at Walsh College in Troy, Michigan.