Melanie Gray & Week 2: Why Do Successful People Burn Out?

The Trust Tax Investigation – Week 2

Why Does This Happen?

Last week, we discovered that burnout rarely begins with collapse.

It begins with a quiet moment when success no longer feels sustainable.

This week, we ask a different question:

How did we get here?

Through three remarkable conversations, you'll discover that burnout isn't usually caused by one overwhelming event. It develops through small adaptations that quietly shape the way we think, lead, achieve, and relate to ourselves.

Together, these conversations reveal why the most dangerous version of burnout can still look like success.

This Week's Episodes

• Monday — Hanna Curman: https://hannacurman.se/

Why expectations slowly disconnect us from ourselves and how awareness helps us reconnect with what matters most.

• Wednesday — Melanie Gray: https://drmelaniegray.com/

How the nervous system adapts to chronic demand until constant pressure begins to feel normal.

• Friday — Angela Kerek: https://angelakerek.com/

Why high achievers often tie their identity to achievement, responsibility, and being the person everyone depends on.

The Question We're Investigating
Burnout doesn't usually happen because one day becomes too much. It happens because we slowly adapt.

We meet expectations before our own needs. We normalize constant pressure. We begin believing our value comes from how much we can carry. These adaptations eventually become the stories we live—and those stories shape the way we lead.

Continue the Journey

If this week's conversations are helping you recognize your own story, I'd love to invite you to take the next step.

On October 15, 2026, join comedian Merit Kahn and me at Walsh College in Troy, Michigan for Rewrite Your Story.

The podcast helps you understand the story you've been living. Rewrite Your Story helps you choose the one you'll live next. During the day, you'll participate in an interactive workshop designed to help you recognize the stories driving the way you work, lead, and carry responsibility.

That evening, Merit Kahn's inspiring and hilarious one-woman show, Optimistic Personality Disorder™, helps you see those stories from a different perspective—and maybe even laugh at the ones you're finally ready to leave behind.

Because you don't have to abandon your success.

You simply need a story that lets you enjoy it.

Learn more at RewriteYourStoryEvent.com

Coming Next Week
Week 3 asks a bigger question. If these patterns begin inside people... What role do organizations play in reinforcing them? We'll explore how well-intentioned workplaces can unintentionally reward the very behaviors that eventually become the Trust Tax.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:03

If you only remember one thing from this week, remember this. Burnout doesn't begin the day you feel exhausted. It begins long before that. Welcome back to the Trust Tax Investigation. Over the past week, we've been asking a simple question. When does success stop feeling like success? And it feels like a trap. Since July 20th, you've heard three remarkable conversations with Danielle Griffin, Zoe Thompson, and Sandra Wood. Three different careers, three different life stories, yet they all describe the same invisible turning point. Not burnout, not collapse. The moment they realize I can't keep doing it this way. Danielle reminded us that our bodies often recognize the cost before our minds do. Zoe showed us that from the outside, things could look good, but internally, something doesn't align. An achievement alone isn't enough. Sandra revealed how easy it is to spend years performing a version of ourselves that the world expects while losing touch with the person underneath. Different stories, the same realization. Something had changed. If you haven't listened to those conversations yet, I encourage you to go back and start there. They lay the foundation for everything we're about to explore. Because this week, our investigation takes a different turn. We're no longer asking what happened. We're asking why. Why do intelligent, capable, caring people slowly become disconnected from themselves? Why do we normalize caring more and more responsibility until it simply feels like it's who we are? Why does burnout seem to surprise us when in reality the clues have been there all along? This week you'll hear from three extraordinary guests who approach the questions from very different perspectives. Hannah Kerman, Melanie Gray, and Angela Courig. Different disciplines, different expertise. Yet together they reveal something remarkable. Burnout isn't caused by one bad day. It's the result of patterns that quietly shape how we think, how we lead, and how we respond to the world around us. Today, Melanie Gray explores what chronic stress does inside our bodies and why our nervous systems often stay switched on. Let's get started. You've spent 20 years in healthcare leadership and higher education. Two of the highest burnout environments that exist. And before you had the language for it, what did your own burnout actually look like in your body? Not in retrospect, but in the story. What did that burnout look like for you?

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Well, it looked like my my body was deteriorating. And I was only probably four 40, you know, I'm 40 again, but my first round of 40, my body was deteriorating. And I went to the doctor, I was hurting all the time back to loop. I mean, I my body, I would hurt so bad from top to bottom, aching. I gained like more weight than I ever gained in my life. But then the doctors tell you, it's okay. You know, you 40, if you have a punch, it's all right. Women get that punch. You know, they call it, I said, a punch. I have a punch. But God. Now I I'm hurting all over, and now you tell me I got a punch. I've lost my weight and it's okay. Nobody worried about it. Nobody's worried about it. And then they, I said, Well, I've been hurting all the time and I'm fatigued all the time, and I I can hardly make it through the day. And they said, Oh, well, you have fibromyalgia. I said, fibromyalgia, oh yeah, yeah. Because they want to, at the, you know, they wanted to give, they also want to label something. And you're a woman, you know, you're in a high stress environment, you are obviously traumatized, you're traumatizing your body, you know, all the reasons you might have fibromyalgia. So we'll just give it a name. And in fact, we're not only give it a name, Melanie. We'll give you some drugs. You want some more drugs? You want some more pills? You want lyrica? You want? I said, no, I don't want any of that. So I was taking a leave, I was taking pain pills. My body would hurt so bad that just to touch me, I was crying. And uh, so that's what let me down. Well, maybe I need to change how I work. So I went into higher ed for a while as well, thinking, well, that'll be easier on my body. And it was, and then it wasn't because I was still taking pain pills. Long story short, I started changing how I eat. I refused to take all those medications because I did not want to be a zombie. You know, so you can go from being burned out and in pain, or you could become a zombie on meds. Neither one looked right for me. And so I began then to look at work and myself and what I did, how I did things differently, what I put on my plate, learning to say no, and it changed my life.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

I'm sure there are people that are experiencing that, that they're they're told, oh, this is just normal, or you're just stressed out, or here's some here's some pills, and I have to say that something similar to happened to me, and I play tennis, and I can only like concentrate for a set. So focused as a result, and I'm with you.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Yeah, and then you know, all things the body aches, the neck aches, the constipation, uh, you and you just kind of think, well, is it you want to blame it? I wanted to blame an unpaired menopause, but I said, No, I I don't think that this should be my life, right? And so listening to other women, and part of my journey too is just working with other women uh women and leaders, and they're having the same story of burnout. And that was one of the things that led me into just thinking and looking at life differently, and then COVID amplified that, and that's where I really became more specialized in the work.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

I see. So you now created the stop it method. Yes. Okay, walk me through it and tell me what problems you were watching leaders fail to solve that made you realize they needed a biological intervention, not just a mindset shift.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Yes. Well, what is S is to scan and tell yourself the truth. And we as leaders sometimes live for others and we live for the title and uh the recognition, and we do not tell ourselves the truth about what really is happening, what we're really feeling on the inside. Do we still want to do this? I mean, think about it, Dr. Luke. We've spent years doing what people told us we should do since we were probably four years old. Right? You're a four-year-old, and you say they ask you, where do you want to be when you grow up? Yeah. Why should a four-year-old know that, right? And so isn't all the things. Yeah, you're gonna do something. You better do something, right? And any parent whose kid don't want to do anything, they're traumatized, everybody's traumatized. Oh my Johnny, oh my Susie, oh my Kylie, I don't know what to do. They don't have a goal. I mean, so we start, so we all drank this, right? We started framing our identity around doing and being something. And then we get there because we're told once we get here, I mean, it is going to be so smooth sailing, life is gonna be good. Is and then you get there and you really, really don't always like the dream. And so part of stopping and scanning is really asking yourself, do you like the spot? Do you like the dream? Are you living the dream for real? Are you or are you not? How do you like how your body feels? Then you and if you don't like the way your totality of your life looks, your time with your children, with your loved ones, playing tennis, if you don't like the fact that you are not uh not balanced in your life, then you need to be willing to tea tell yourself the truth. No, this is not working. I don't like it. And that doesn't mean that you have to change your whole life immediately. Nobody's telling you to leave your job immediately, but have a plan. Maybe you have to have a three-year plan out or a three-year transition plan. But if you don't tell yourself the truth, you won't get there. And then you have to be willing to own your truth and also own your yeses and own your no's so you begin to set boundaries to give yourself the freedom. And then you have to pee, you have to prioritize yourself. You've gotten where you are. People have achieved what they've achieved because they know how to set priorities. Interesting, we can do so much for everybody else and nothing for ourselves when we need to. Yeah. You know, and when it comes down in in some respects, and then we have to be intentional, I about the change, and then we have to be willing to transform. You have to be willing, and we help people, you know, get to that point. Because this the challenge about being a great leader sometimes is that you talk to yourself and you answer yourself too. And we're not always good at both giving ourselves the right answer.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Yeah. So last night I was uh enjoying some time with my husband and and my friends. We play, we have a nice, beautiful group of people that we play tennis with on Wednesday nights. And then after we uh play tennis, then we get together and have some little fruit and that sort of thing. But last night, unfortunately, it rained out. So after our first like half-hour of play, so we ended up going over to a friend's house. Well, they naturally asked about the podcast, but they we also got to talking about sourdough bread, because I like to make sourdough bread. And someone said, How do you find time to do all these things? And that's where prioritization really makes a difference. Yes, you have to prioritize it. You have to. Absolutely. So when uh the other thing I was wondering about is you use the phrase regulate first, lead second. And most leadership development starts with strategy, skills, competence. What does it cost a leader and a team when that sequence is backwards? Lead, then regulate.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Well, they lead out of their emotions. They haven't paused to look in so that you can lead forward. You can't just tell people, you know, be in a state yourself and tell people are always reading you. You are the book they are reading, and they're reading your reactions, they're reading your facial expressions, they're reading your gestures, they're reading your attention, they are reading your book before you ever open your mouth. So you really must regulate yourself. Take a deep breath, calm yourself. If you need to cancel the meeting, I mean there's a lot about breath work and taking time to pause, and those things are essential, but there's deeper work that everyone has to do to really become regulated. There's those small pauses we know about mind being mindful and breathing and you know, taking a time out. Those are small resets to help you regulate in the day, but there's deeper work about your inner, uh, your inner beliefs, your where your emotions are really standing. And that's why you have to stop sometimes and scan so that you can reset your calendar, take your PTO to really get that emotional reset going. That takes really some days. So there's the emotion, the things we do in the moment, and they're the actions we need to take deeper that are more deeply rooted, that are more long-term.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Hannah, Melanie, and Angela aren't telling the same story. They're answering the same question. How do capable, caring people gradually become disconnected with themselves? Hannah reminds us that it begins when we spend more time living up to the expectations of others rather than listening to ourselves. Melanie explains what happens when our nervous systems adapt to the constant demand. High alert becomes normal until we no longer recognize what calm feels like. Angela explains how our identity quietly becomes tied to achievement and responsibility until caring more isn't just what you do, it's who you believe you are. Different perspectives, same explanation. Burnout isn't caused by a single event. It's the result of small adaptations that over time become the way we live. We stop listening to ourselves. Our nervous system learns that constant pressure is normal. Our identity becomes wrapped up in proving our value. None of it happens overnight. And that's exactly why so many people never see it coming. As we return to today's conversation, ask yourself which of these adaptations have quietly become normal for me. Because once you understand how you got here, you can begin to choose a different path. I know though, sometimes it's kind of hard to regulate in the moment. So let's just talk about a situation. You're in a meeting and then someone blindsides you. What are some techniques that you have found helpful or your leaders have found helpful when you're blindsided and you have you can't cancel the meeting because it's not your meeting. You're in the middle, the thick of it. What are some things that they can do at that moment to?

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Well, you can be honest. You know, you can be honest. I really appreciate that this meeting was set up. Can you give me? I'm happy to work through the meeting with everyone. Allow me a few more days to get you the deliverables. Understand that I'm honestly not as prepared for this as I would like to be. I want to do my part and contribute. Please allow me to listen and make comments where I think I can. And I'll, if we can revisit the subject when I I'll be happy to do that. There you go. And if you're not ready, you're not ready. The idea, I don't think you we are blindsided sometimes based on your industry because life happens to everyone, and it's happening in every industry. And as much as we'd like to think we're prepared for everything, we're not. We're not prepared for the hurricanes, for the changes in the weather, for people dying, for shootings. We're not prepared for economy being what it is, and everything changing prices and workflows and logistics across the world. We can't prepare for all of this. So we have to be honest and show each other grace.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yes, and yourself.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

And yourself.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Yeah. So healthcare is one of the highest turnover rates in the industry, approaching 30% annually. Yes. Huge. You said that organizations just don't have a performance problem. They have a nervous system problem. But here's what I want to push on. Is it the nervous system dysregulation that's causing it? Or is it the symptoms of something the organization is doing structurally that nobody's redesigning?

SPEAKER_01 19:44

It's both. It's both. Because the because how we integrate new changes, the protocols we have around it, the vision or conversation are we putting too much on people? So that we need to, you know, look at how we onboard new ideas. If we don't have those conversations and really check in with the people that we want to do the work, then we create a nervous system problem for everyone. And given the state of the world, we are working not only with how do we manage the work, we're managing the fear that everyone has about life. People have a lot of fear and trepidation about my job, the world, you know, can I make my house note this week? We cannot ignore life because and think people are turning it off because they show up for us. They're not. So I think it's both. It's not understanding the big picture, how we're dysregulating people, and how they're having to internalize it and try to manage all the change with life.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Yeah. Now, so for the leader who's listening right now and she's delivering, she's the person everyone calls, you know, whenever something needs to happen, or the organization needs someone that they can rely on, and she's proven she can be relied on, and she's showing up, but she knows something is wrong in her body. Even if on the outside it looks good, it's like green, let's go. What is the very first regulation practice you would give to her? Not the whole plan, just the one thing.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

The one thing I would tell her is to take a pause and identify the people on her team that can help her. Because one of the things that we I think don't do well are uplifting other people and identifying people sharing the work. We own more than we need to. We don't always delegate well. So who can help you? I mean, the lifts are heavier. So if they if if you're identified as someone who can get things done, one of the things you and you don't want to lose that, then you gotta build a team. It's nothing, leadership is not a solo endeavor.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

I I think that is such an important lesson that we all need to look at. One of the things that you talked about earlier was setting boundaries. And I I just want to kind of push back a little bit on just you need to set the boundaries because I feel like it sometimes makes the person who's overwhelmed the victim. Like you're the one who's not setting setting the boundaries because it's just like you said before, there's life and there's the situation where you know, who knows? Maybe the company just had 20 people let go, they had the downsize, and now your plate just got fuller. And for you to say no feels a little dangerous. Like possibly you could be the next person that's downsized, downsized. Can you talk about a little bit about that particular situation and what are some different ways that she can say no without saying no?

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Well, you can say, let me think about it. I hear what the expectations are, let's or let me clarify the expectations, clarify the timeline. Can we can you help me just re-identify the timeline that you would like this done? And would you allow me 30 minutes later on this week to really evaluate a plan? And we can all look at it together. You don't just because someone tells you to do something doesn't mean you have to do it by yourself and doesn't mean you can't share the accountability. Even with your leaders, because your leaders don't want you to fail. And sometimes, you know, there is a pushdown. And in the moment, everybody just wants to look good and uh-huh, uh-huh, and go move on. And we have to be willing to say to the leader, you know, I'm on the team, I know we have metrics, we need to make it, but let me, I can't give you a good answer right now. Sometimes we can't. We work for big organizations. Healthcare, for example, is complex. I can't just run something off my head because there's so many stakeholders. I need to check. I need to be accurate, right? So allow yourself the time to be accurate and ask more questions. Yeah, there you go. Asking questions is a n is a better way than, you know, I think a nicer, a softer way than just saying I can't. You can just let me think about it. Can we come? Can we circle back tomorrow for 30 minutes? Can I get on your calendar? Because I really want to support, I understand that your leader has expectations of you too.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Right, and you want to help. So let's make sure that we do this in a way that's gonna be effective. I like that answer. So if an organization wanted to move beyond the band-aid of wellness solutions, because we hear that wellness solutions like a uh reset or going to a spa, maybe it helps for the short term, but not the long term. And they want to actually address the burnout at the roots. What does doing it right look like in the first 90 days?

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Well, it looks like it looks like giving the message that and changing the culture. Now it takes five three to five years to change behaviors and cultures. But in the first 90 days, you can give the message, we're going to try to limit our meetings on Fridays so that people can clean up their email and go home on time for the weekend. We can try, we can say no meetings on Monday before noon so people can get the payroll done without meetings, you know, where they can, you know, catch up from the weekend and have a fresher start for the week. It means that you're not, if you have something you you want to say to someone at nine at night, that you schedule that email for eight in the morning when they start. Don't be send don't send emails nine at night because you're sending a message. You don't have to teach text people all night long. Because whatever you do, you're you're saying is the standard, whether you're saying it or not. People read your behavior more than they read your words.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

There you go. So, what's the one thing that you want every leader who's listening to carry out from this particular conversation?

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Well, I like each leader to really value themselves as a gift. And that they would really take away that it's okay to have the conversation with yourself that maybe there's a pivot in my future. Or maybe I maybe you don't need to pivot outside of the organization, maybe or or do something different. You might want to step back from your role and do less, but stay with the organization. What is best for you right now? What do you really want? Because you each leader must answer for themselves who are they? What do they want to be known for if they did not have a title? If you did not have the title, the job, the position that you were in, who are you? And if you cannot, what are you known for? What is your impact? If you do not see yourself as valuable and you can't talk about yourself outside of your job, I would be concerned. Because you're greater than that. You're greater than that. You're a gift.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Let's embrace our the gift. If someone wants to learn more about you, where should we send them?

SPEAKER_01 27:39

They can go to drmelanygray.com.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Excellent. So we'll have a link in the show notes. Anything else that you would like to add as we end this episode?

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Yes, I just want the listeners to know that there is a free assessment, dysregulation assessment, that they can take right on my website. If you go to drmelonygray.com, it's a great assessment. It'll give you some insight and some tools and to know that this your life is a you're on a positive, progressive perspective, but you're gonna have to design it and be courageous and know that you're a gift.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Excellent. Thank you so much. I appreciate you joining.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Thank you so much, Dr. Luke, for having me.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Over the last two weeks of the Trust Tax Investigation, we've uncovered two important truths. In week one, we learned that burnout really begins with a collapse. It begins with a quiet realization. I can't keep doing it this way. This week we asked a different question. How did we get here? And our guests have given us remarkable answers. It's not through one catastrophic event. It's not because we're not resilient enough, but because over time we adapt. We learn to meet expectations before we meet our own needs. Our nervous system begins to accept constant pressure as normal. Our identity becomes tied to achievement, responsibility, and being the person everyone can count on. These adaptations don't happen overnight. They happen so gradually that they begin to feel like it's who we are. But they're not who we are. They're what we've learned. Next week, we take the investigation one step further. If these adaptations develop inside us, what role does our organization play in reinforcing them? How do well-intentioned workplaces unintentionally reward the very behaviors that eventually become the trust tax? That's where we're headed next. Until then, I want to leave you with one question. What have you adapted to that no longer serves you? Because the moment you recognize that adaptation is the moment you realize it can change. I'll see you next time as we continue the trust tax investigation.