Sandra Wood & Week 1: When Corporate Success Becomes a Trap

Season 5 Special Series | Week 1: When Success Becomes a Trap

What if burnout isn't where the story begins?

Welcome to The Trust Tax Investigation, a four-week special series on UnCeiling You.

Over the next four weeks, we're exploring a question I couldn't stop thinking about after interviewing leaders, physicians, psychologists, researchers, and executives:

Why do capable, caring people quietly become the place unfinished work lands?

This isn't a series about burnout.

It's an investigation into what happens long before burnout appears.

Week 1: When Success Becomes a Trap

Today we conclude Week One of the Trust Tax Investigation.

Sandra Wood shares a powerful story about identity, resilience, and rebuilding after life changes in unexpected ways.

• Three conversations.
• Three different lives.
• One remarkably similar pattern.

In this episode you'll discover:

1. How identity becomes connected to achievement
2. What happens when life forces us to slow down
3. Why letting go is often the hardest step
4. The final lesson from Week One

Learn more about Sandra Wood

🌐 Website: https://sandrawood.coach/

🎟️ SPECIAL EVENT: Rewrite Your Story

Corporate Burnout Doesn't Have to Be Your Story

If today's conversation resonated with you, join me and bestselling author Merit Kahn for Rewrite Your Story, a transformational one-day experience for high achievers who are ready to release stress, reconnect with themselves, and create what's next.

📍 October 15, 2026
 Troy, Michigan

Learn more and reserve your seat:
 https://RewriteYourStoryEvent.com

Continue the Investigation

⬜ Week 1 – When Success Becomes a Trap (Current Week)
⬜ Week 2 – Why Does This Happen?
⬜ Week 3 – Why Do Organizations Create It?
⬜ Week 4 – How Do We Break the Cycle?

Follow the podcast so you don't miss the next chapter of The Trust Tax Investigation.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Welcome to Unsealing You. I'm Dr. Natalie Luke. Earlier this year, something started happening that I couldn't explain. I'd finish an interview, close my notebook, and think, I've heard that before. The guest was different, the career was different, the story was different, but underneath it all, the experience was the same. And after a while, I couldn't ignore it, and I started asking more questions. So instead of 12 unrelated conversations, we're gonna take one journey together. In the first week, we're gonna ask, when does success become a trap? During week two, we ask, why did this happen? In week three, we ask, why do organizations keep creating traps for us? In week four, we discover how do we break this cycle. Every guest has a different story. But together, I think they're revealing the same hidden pattern that causes burnout. I'm so glad you're here. Today, we wrap up week one. We explored the early signs of burnout. Sandra Wood adds another perspective, reminding us how success can become intertwined with identity and what it takes to find yourself. Again, let's get started. Sandra, thank you so much for being on Unsealing You. Cancer at 40, divorced after 20 years, and a single parent of two teenage girls. Yep. While rebuilding your career from scratch, most people survive one of those. You had to do all three of them at the same time in the same chapter. Take me into that season, not the summary of it, but the Tuesday morning. Oh my god. That you where you were getting out of bed, and what did it actually look like? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Well, I'll tell you like the whole thing started with me standing in my front yard and getting like a tap on my shoulder, and you know, you can call it God or the universe or whatever. But this question came forth and it was, are you ready? And I sat there and kind of took a deep breath, and I kind of felt like that was coming. And I said, Yes, but for what? And then the distinct answer was to stop living your life for others. And this moment happened like right after my cancer diagnosis and treatment. And so I started that season of change. And so that moment in my yard was kind of the beginning of moving towards whatever that meant for me. And, you know, I've had a lot of people ask me, like, how did you do all that stuff? Like, how did you how were you brave enough to do it? And I will just say that that question, like little tiny little fire inside, you know, and that fire just was never gonna go out. But it was just sort of that fire of like, yeah, I'm done doing that. And so now I have to do the work to create the reality of living for myself.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Well, it's funny when you told me that story, you know, sometimes I get chills on my arms, sometimes I get chills on my back. I got chills throughout my whole entire body. Wow. Yes. Yeah. So uh I'm not sure if you're aware of my story. We had in 2023, March 13th. Was it yeah? Uh no, March 14th, because it's 314 Pie Day. In 2023, we had a fire in our house and it took everything out. Um, the the house didn't burn down to the ground. The smoke just engulfed everything, and so we had to take it down to the two by fours. And but before that, weeks before that, I kept getting them a message things are getting disrupted, things are getting disrupted. There's a big disruption. And I I didn't know what that meant. And then the fire hit, and I'm like, uh, here we go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Oh my gosh. I know, and I always tell people, you know, it doesn't have to go that way. But for some of us it does because it's it's like it something needs to pivot. Um, you know, and I felt like that, if I didn't heed that message in that moment, I had a strong feeling that if cancer was gonna visit me again, I didn't know if I was gonna survive it. So it felt like I had a fire lit under me to go do the work that I needed to do in order to not create the conditions for my body to say a nope, you know. We're done with this experiment. Yeah, exactly. You're peace out, you're done. And it was like, no, I didn't want that because of my daughters, you know. They were like nine and twelve thirteen at the time, and it was just not not how I wanted to roll. So I just began the work of, you know, it started with walks near my house. I live on a green belt and a river, and then it started with, you know, grabbing lots of books and reading things, and then I started putting those things I was reading into practice, and a lot of it had to do with setting boundaries and having difficult conversations and not collapsing, you know. And I mean, I really I just went around like this all the time. Like that was, you know, I actually had conversations with my first husband using my hand because there was there was a little bit of abuse there, you know, and it was subtle. Everything was very subtle. So everyone who looked at my life from the outside thought it looked great. And I think that happens to a lot of women, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Yeah, yeah. We're pr sort of programmed to not say no.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Yes, and and to make it all look good, even among the, you know. So that process was, you know, basically I knew I couldn't go back to being the Sandra before cancer. And so this Sandra that I was forming wasn't necessarily acceptable to my close family and my husband at the time. And I had a lot of comments like, Well, you're not being you. And it was absolutely true. It was because I didn't know who I was, and I married young and I had taken on the values, and you know, I I had just taken on what my husband wanted and liked. And when I started unpacking all of it, I realized that I was actually moving towards myself. And so when people would make those comments, I'd be like, Yep, yep, that's true, but I'm not going back. So just so you know, she's gone. Um, and that's really what ended my marriage was the fact that my partner didn't want the this person who spoke up and who had, you know, uh more not opinions, but had more clarity about what I wanted. And he wanted just the same, and that was not gonna work for me. So so that's you know, I I left I left a 20-year marriage and found myself in an apartment with my daughters and kind of going, now what? Yeah. Talking about loss of identity is like, you know, it was it was it was a mi it was a bit to take on.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Yeah. So but I learned a lot of things, you know, and that's that's what I love to share with people now because I've been inside it, and that's why, you know, I when I love talking to women, I'm not talking just from, you know, book learning, I'm talking from being inside, just like I'm sure you have too, Natalie.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Yeah. Yeah. So now today you have clients that are smart, capable women, but they have lost themselves in the process. Just like you talked about losing yourself. Yeah. And so before you can coach that, you had to you had lived it, which is what we just talked about.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Yeah, yeah. And I still live it. Like, I mean, you know, we're an ongoing process. So it's not like I got, you know, all everything perfect. Now I understand when, you know, something arises, you know, that is something to investigate and not necessarily fear. And I mean, we re, we, you know, we reinvent ourselves all through our lives as women. We have lots of identities. And I think sometimes women lock themselves into this like one identity, and then they can't operate from that anymore. And it starts to feel, you know, it just starts to feel constricting or, you know, all it appears in many different ways. Our health, you know, um, our relationships or our our careers. You know, we start to see, we start to see our careers not necessarily serving us anymore as well.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Right, which is why I'm glad that we're talking. And I also love the fact that you pointed out that we have multiple identities, just not one identity for sure. I can totally relate to that, especially like you. I have I only I have one daughter, not two, but the one daughter, and it's funny to watch her grow. She's in college, and I watch her in different situations, like a playful moment and her playful voice, and then in serious moments and her serious voice, and and then in her when nobody's watching me voice, and it's kind of interesting because I'm like, that voice is distinct, this voice is distinct, that voice is distinct, and I keep thinking, I think she's playing with these voices. And how and and now I'm starting to see that when she's playful, when she's serious, when sh nobody's looking, is starting to sound the same. Like they're integrating.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Oh, that's so cool to see. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Wow. I had no awareness of any of that when I was her age, probably. Me neither. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I will I will always say, like when I'm working with women who have children or adult children, or wherever they're at, and they feel like they didn't quite get it right, or there's some areas that they're feeling a little bit frustrated about. I mean, actually, this quite happens quite a bit. I will always tell women, let that go for now and go, let's go with inside you and discover who you are and and do that internal work because we tend to work live our life our lives outside in, not inside out. And I found, I mean, a big part of me wanting to leave my marriage was that I wanted my daughters to know that it's okay to say no and to pivot and do something that works better for you. I always will tell women, just let that go for now, work on yourself. And then all of a sudden they're like, wait a minute, I just had a great conversation with my daughter the other day. Or it's it's these subtle little things. And, you know, I always tell them it's actually magic, you know, because you know, you're you're changing yourself cellularly, and they are deeply connected to you. So if you're changing, then you know, and sometimes, you know, it there's friction there because it's, you know, they have to actually look at themselves too. But I just think it's a really powerful thing for women to understand when you change yourself and you start living your life for yourself, everything around you changes. Some things reveal themselves and that need to fall away, and other things just get better, you know, and it it's just this lovely piece where it's it's so worth it for solving all of these external issues that you're having.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

I I think it's so beautiful to see you on the other side of this challenge, to see you as so proud of yourself, so competent, so happy, and to know, hey, you can do this and get through.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Yes, yes. And that's what I always see when I'm, you know, talking to a woman. It's like I just know that there's something amazing in there, even though they may not be able to see that. It's I just love being able to hold that space because I feel like if I could do that, then anybody could do that. And I, you know, I know that's a lot of women will say that, um, but it really is true. You know, so I I just I think women are amazing and we're creative uh beings and we can go create something different, even if it looks like crap right now. The soot all over the floor, the windows blocked. My gosh, talk about oh my gosh, Natalie. That's that's quite the experience.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

It was well for me. My husband, uh so my husband had a lot of things from his family. His parents had died, his parents had a lot of things. They had Christmas ornaments. This is just an example, Christmas ornaments from way back when, and those are precious, you know. When you you have an ornament that's like, I don't know, I'm gonna say 200 years old, it wasn't 200, but it seemed that way. But you had a lot of them. We had a lot of stuff. Wow, and to see it all piled up burnt. I thought to myself, I am never gonna let this amount of stuff accumulate around me ever again. Yeah. Um, so for me, that was like the biggest change. It's like, you know, I I don't need this stuff. And then for my husband, I didn't really realize it, but it was the first time he didn't have a ton of stuff around him. Oh first time in his life. Wow. And so we go into this house, the insurance company did fabulous with us. We didn't have to fight with them, they were wonderful. The people that we were dealing with were fabulous, very compassionate. They got us into a house, all we had was the furniture. They came in with the towels, the sheets, the all all the pots and the pans and the dishes. It's all loaded up, but there's no stuff outside of that. And he looked at it, he's like, I kind of like this.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

I'm like, Yeah, okay, so the universe just took care of it. Everything's always working out for your good, right? Yeah, always. Wow. So it sounds like he didn't have a ton of grief over that. More some grief.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Like every now and then he's like, I was wondering where that one picture went. Yeah. But I think we all decided that we were gonna, you know, we were going to have a positive, we were gonna make this a positive experience. And so as a family, we grieved. We it wasn't like we didn't allow ourselves to do that, but we knew that there was gonna be something positive on the other side. I want to pause for just a moment. If you've been listening this week, you've probably noticed something. Different people, different careers, different lives. Yet they're describing remarkably similar experiences. That's what fascinated me enough to keep asking questions. Every conversation this season adds another clue. Now let's get back to the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that's a big, that's a big transformation right there. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was good. It's interesting that you say that, that he had a lot of stuff around him. Um, and I think a lot of us do. My husband does, is contained to his garage and office because I'm Zen, you know, and I've gotta have, you know, so we've blended that piece. But it the way, you know, I often think of like when we decide, I think a lot of times why we don't stop and go into our internal self is because we're so used to being productive and competent. And so when we stop, it feels like we don't have value, we're not worth anything. Um, and I think those are some of the patterns that as women we get locked into, like we spend a lot of time overthinking or just in our mind, staying busy all the time. And the way I think about when we're going into our internal landscape is kind of like it's a house. And in the house, there are also all of the boxes, you know, and the closets and the garage. And a lot of those are parts of ourselves that we just haven't spent time with because it's been easier just to be productive and not necessarily feel all the things or examine all the things. But things happen sometimes, and I think that was my moment of, you know, oh my gosh, I'd like to be on this planet and be old. So that made me have to kind of go in and look at my unhealthy patterns or my stories or, you know, all the things that we have inside ourselves. But it's scary to do that. And, you know, I think it's helpful when, you know, when we have some sort of guidance to take that path. And there's many different ways to do that. But I just I feel that going, I mean, this quote came across me in that time when I was going through cancer. If you don't go within, you go without. It's it it kind of has to be done. Um, and I think a lot of people live their whole lives just living outside, you know, in the external world, letting the external world determine their reality and their happiness. If this happens, I'll be happy. And that, you know, that's just such a sad trap to spend our lives in. Of course, we engage with our environment. But, you know, I had a dad, both my parents passed at the end of 2025. And I had a dad who was um he was definitely neurodiverse. Um, he had an Asperger's diagnosis. Now it that's not used anymore, but he was he'd get very microfocused and he would only microfocus on the politics of the day. And his whole happiness was determined by what was happening out here. And what's happening out here in itself is is not an enjoyable ride, you know, if you're not grounded in yourself. So I think it's just, you know, I think a big part of my process has just been always kind of going back within, examining things, but you can't do it from this way that I think we do as women, where we beat ourselves up. I should have done it better. What was I thinking? You know, that doesn't, that doesn't work when we go inside. It has to be kindness, honesty, taking responsibility, but you have to have compassion in there, just like you have for people that you love. So I think of your fire as sort of like what ends up happening inside sometimes too. Like things need to go.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

No, and I love that, especially and I love um when I read your quote when you had uh on your page where you said, if you don't go within, you go without. And in I agree with you, it is so scary to to look at those emotions, to look at an experience and explore what you made it mean and how you judged it and look at it from multiple angles.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Yeah. It's really important. And I think that, you know, I think when for me, the thought of, okay, I'm gonna, you know, cancer gave me that wake-up call of, oh, I'm gonna die, you know, when you're 40, you're still kind of cruising along. And it's like, oh man, my mortality is actually a real thing. And I just kept thinking about what was important to me at the end of my life. And it was important to me that I didn't have all that baggage internally, especially towards my family of origin, because that was the cause of a lot, you know, for a lot of us. You know, there's traumas or, you know, just ways that we've learned to navigate our life based off of, you know, how we were treated when we were younger. And, you know, so for me, it was just like I don't want to be on, I don't want to have any regrets when I'm dying of things I haven't said to people or ways that I haven't come to peace with myself over things. And so that kind of became the pathway moving forward since 40 to make sure that I'm brave enough to have difficult conversations or I'm kind enough to forgive somebody for something when they were doing their best, you know. So it's just that kind of thing. I think women could really benefit from engaging more in that kind of thought process and feeling process.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Right. And so earlier on we're on a podcast and you said I would talk like this. And what you what happened is you had your hand up and you were saying, Stop. No.

unknown 23:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

So you're putting a boundary out there. And what I hear you saying is you were exploring what is a no for me. And then you're starting to say, Okay, it's yes, it's a no, but I'm not gonna be so hard about it. Yeah. But at the same time, you're gonna understand I said no. What's happening in the body when a boundary gets challenged, when you're ner when and you people said this isn't like you, because you probably didn't say no before. No. What's happening in the body, the nervous system? How is how is it how is your body reacting?

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Uh when when you're okay, so for me inside or for the person outside of me?

SPEAKER_00 24:13

For you when you're seeing somebody respond to your no.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

It's kind of it's terrifying because it's an unfamiliar landscape. So it's like walking into a new land where it's like, uh, I want to run back to the familiar, which is where I collapse and say I'm sorry, or overexplain, because then it just goes away and then they don't feel bad. So to me, it feels scary, but it doesn't, it doesn't necessarily. I think sometimes we r react to things because we don't feel safe. I'm going to say when you're really setting boundaries, it's kind of actually the safest place you can be because you are being with yourself and you are letting somebody know what you require moving forward. And so, but I think that for most women, and this is why I end up teaching a lot, is that it's one thing to understand the language and why and how to set boundaries, but it's another thing to actually do it and actually stay in the energy of conflict. Because when we address a boundary, now we're in a state of you know potential conflict with somebody. And most of us, I know for me, I ran or I mediated as a way to navigate conflict because that's what I did at a young age. So I either fled the situation, folded, or, or I just tried to mitigate it with, you know, meeting that person wherever they were at. But what I learned to do is stand in it and let it be, let it be messy, let it be uncomfortable, and just get quiet. And the more I started doing that, the more that person actually started responding positively to my boundary. So I always tell women it's like there's this magic 30 seconds that feels like 30 years, where you just stand there and you you don't over-explain, you don't say you do you can say it again, but you have to say it in the exact same way. Like a broker. I mean, most moms know this with children, right? I mean, just say it again and again and again, but we don't do that with our spouses or our co-workers or our family members because it feels it just feels scary, you know. And so it to me, I call this just an unlearned skill set. It's just a skill set to learn, like all the other ones you learned, you know, but it feels really scary because you're putting yourself on the line and somebody can potentially reject you. You know, and that's what I went through in my 40s was, you know, and I mean, I was unskilled, it was clunky, I failed, you know. I mean, but I got to learn, like, oh, that's what happens when I overexplained. Then they just go back to going, oh, she didn't really mean it. And then they do the same behavior again. So I just learned those pieces. But and then I think when we get really skilled at it, especially with people that we have positive relationships with, they appreciate it because you are actually letting them know what it is that you require or something important that matters to you.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Yeah, I think that's perfect because like what we're talking who we're talking to are high achievers who pick up pieces that sometimes other people should be picking up.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

And uh it's going back to a couple of points that you made. And one is we feel valued when we do that.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

And when we're not doing that, we feel like are we really adding value? And then we end up being exhausted. So we're like giving and regretting, giving and resenting.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Yes, and then we get angry. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Send a sparky email. Yes. And they're like, oh god, no. And that doesn't help our relationships. No, it's like it's important to be able to say no.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

And I rem as a tea I taught high school biology, and I I was taught when you ask the students a question, just remember they have to like search their data banks, they're assimilating this information. They have to take your question, interpret it, go into their data bank, and then pull out the answer. Give them some time. Count to 10 in your head. And maybe like saying no is the same way. It's like here's the no.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Two, three, count to ten.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

Yeah. So that's why I said it feels like so long. But then sometimes somebody comes back with like they actually had a really good response, or you just learn something new about them. Yeah. You know, I think it's amazing. I think this is why I love this line. Um, our competence becomes everyone else's convenience because I think that high achieving, you know, these are the women we're talking to, is that they're so good at things that they just everyone gives them the things to do at home, at work, you know. And I I think for women just to really sit with that, like be, I mean, I had somebody actually coaching me when I was working. I I spent my professional life in the nonprofit arena, like in leadership management. I had actually a boss tell me to start doing C work and to do that for a month and see how it felt. That was it was like, I don't do C work, right? Um, but it was actually really good because what ended up happening is my team started performing better. Huh. Yeah. So I just stepped up. Yeah, they stepped up, you know, and I mean, and they didn't have any, they weren't thinking, oh, Sandra's not doing her job. They actually didn't really notice it. It was just me who was like, I don't have to do that, plus plus, plus, plus, plus. And and I might have been a little bit micromanaging when I was doing that. Oh, yeah. Guilty that. Yeah. I mean, that's what we do as competent women, you know, we we do a lot of things. And when we stop and pause, it feels a bit scary, but it's really amazing um what can happen to the people around us. And and and when we have a pause, we're actually with ourselves. We're not in our mind all the time thinking things through. Um, because I always say letting the mind drive the vehicle of your life is a bad idea.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

So really connecting with your heart, taking that pause. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Yeah. And putting, and you know, make the mind your co-pilot, not the driver of your vehicle. Like the mind is amazing. But if we're only in that, and this is what I see with a lot of these women, is they come to me and they're like, I'm not even in my body anymore. And it's like, okay, that's we're gonna be working on that piece.

unknown 31:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

So what does the first session with a new client look like for you? Um, you know, especially the one that's still performing, hasn't yet learned to do the counting ever saying no. And she's disconnected with her body.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

Yeah. It's a really kind of a series of questions to get underneath everything. You know, so it's just helping get clarity. Like, what is the thing? Like, I will say that I just did this with a with a woman. And you know, a lot of the work happens even before the first coaching call because we have to be clear on what exactly we're gonna do together. So it's not like, hey, join this and we'll make everything happen. It's like she needs to have clarity. So when she walks into that, that that container of coaching, she's clear about it. So a lot of it's just getting clarity. And for a lot of women, it'll be like, oh, I'm overthinking, or you know, I'm I'm doing so much that I'm not pausing long enough. So then we kind of come up with a game plan. But part of that piece is, you know, I always, you know, use the magic wand. Um, I don't know if you're familiar with that, but I like to help women begin with the end in mind. Like, what is underneath all of that? Like what is what does your soul want you to be doing? You know, what what's that desire? You know, something maybe you had years ago, even when you were a child, like you had a spark of something. What is that desire and what could could could your life look like six months from now? What's your best idea for that? You know, what what do you want it to look like? What do you want it to feel like? Some women are like, I have no idea. And others are very specific. I am not answering emails before bed. I am waking up rested. Um, I don't have dread on Monday mornings. I mean, this is like the real, they're they're going to where they're at right now, and they're using that like this is no longer acceptable. And so they're able to kind of come up with that piece of how they want to feel, what it looks like, because now we're inviting the body into the whole thing and imagination, right? Because we need to have some magic in you know happening in here as well.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

So for the woman or the man who's listening right now, who's heard all this and is like, this conversation is so speaking to me. What would what's the one thing that you'd ask her to do before she goes to sleep tonight?

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Oh man. I think I would ask her to sit for a moment quietly, maybe even putting her hand on her heart and asking herself, what do I really want? What do I really desire? And just see what comes up. You know, and it might be hard because her head is used to it starts thinking it out. And a lot of times I will tell women, like, think about the soles of your feet if you're starting to think, because it sort of brings you back into your body. But I would just ask her to sit with herself. And even if it's just, even if she starts with what she doesn't want, because that's usually the reality that's happening. I don't want to be tired. I don't want to be angry at my husband. I don't want to dread work on Monday mornings, then just go to the other side of that. I wake up excited, you know, so she can just play with going to the opposite side, because then it's at least pulling her in the direction that she'd like to be in. Sometimes we don't know what we want, but we certainly know what we what we, you know, we we we don't know what we want because we know what we we know what we're experiencing. And so I think that's the piece. I think that's a place she could start this evening is just to ask herself where she's at and what's not working, and what could be the opposite of that, and then to just envision, close her eyes and envision just a little piece of that. Like, how does it feel in your body? Do you see things out there happening? And I find women get so creative in this process that now we're starting to track on something that feels a little bit better. So now we just have the gap between where you are and where you want to be. And that journey is is a beautiful one and um and something that I think every woman can accomplish.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Yay! That was a long answer. It was a perfect answer. Thank you so much for that. Excellent. Any parting words? Um, we will have information about you in the show notes. Uh-huh. If anybody wants to learn more and anything else you'd like to end on.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

I just want to say it's just never too late. No matter if you're 35, 45, 75, 95, it's just it's just never too late to change and to pivot and to be be more who you are and who you came to be. Because, you know, we all have things that we came here to do. And I just think that uh it's it's it's always available to you, regardless of all the challenges that are in front of you. There's just possibility exists. So believe in yourself.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Yay! Thank you so much for coming on ceiling here. Thank you. Thank you. Three conversations, three very different stories, one question. When does success become a trap? Next week we move beyond recognizing the pattern and begin asking why it happens. Please like, share, and download so you have this when you need it. I'll see you on the next Unsealing You episode.