Wired Wrong: The Corporate Burnout Your Body Has Been Trying to Tell You About

What if the drive that made you successful in your corporate career is the same thing quietly burning out your body?

In this episode of the UnCeiling Zone, Dr. Natalie Luke sits down with Laurel Van Der Toorn — trauma therapist, EMDR specialist, and founder of Laurel Therapy Collective — to go somewhere most leadership conversations don't have the courage to go: into the body.

For high performers, corporate burnout isn't just about doing too much. It's what happens when years inside a demanding system train your nervous system to treat achievement as safety and rest as risk. Over time, overextension doesn't just become a habit. It becomes identity. And the body starts keeping the score.

With over a decade of experience working with executives, lawyers, healthcare workers, and entrepreneurs, Laurel brings rare clinical depth to explain exactly how corporate burnout takes hold — and what it actually takes to heal it. Spoiler: a vacation won't fix it.

In this episode:

• Why capable women experience corporate burnout after becoming someone everyone depends on — not on the way up
• The three early warning signals high achievers are trained to explain away
• What psychoneuroimmunology reveals about chronic stress and the immune system
• The Vigilance Pattern: why your nervous system won't believe the quiet is safe
• Why rest, vacation, and willpower don't heal corporate burnout — and what the deeper work requires
• How to hold the line when the people who benefited from your sacrifice push back

Key quote:
"A vacation will not fix burnout. You come back to the same inbox, the same system, the same unspoken agreements about who catches what when it falls." — Dr. Natalie Luke

Free resources:
→ Responsibility Audit™ (free, 15 min) — find out exactly where you're over-carrying: https://unceilingzone.com/
→ Reset Tonight™ (free, 7 min) — a containment tool for leaders whose brain won't shut down: https://unceilingzone.com/

About your host — Dr. Natalie Luke, PhD:
Dr. Natalie Luke went from high school teacher to Senior Vice President in a STEM company, building and leading high-performance teams across complex organizations. She holds a multidisciplinary PhD and is the creator of the Precision Responsibility System™.
Website: https://unceilingzone.com/

About the guest — Laurel Van Der Toorn:
Laurel is a trauma therapist licensed in multiple states, EMDR-trained, former Pepperdine professor, and founder of Laurel Therapy Collective. Over a decade of experience with executives, lawyers, healthcare workers, and entrepreneurs.
Website: https://www.laureltherapy.net/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurel-van-der-toorn/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/laureltherapycollective/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Unseiling You podcast. I'm Dr. Natalie Luke. And today we're going somewhere most leadership conversations don't have the courage to go. That's into the body, not the strategy, not the productivity system, not the five habits of highly effective leaders, the body. Because that's where burnout actually lives in our body. And it's the last place high performers think to look. Here is what I've been sitting with. It's the trust tax, the invisible cost that capable people pay for being the ones everyone depends on. Doesn't just steal your time. Over the years, it changes your biology. Your nervous system learns that being needed is being safe, that rest is a risk, that slowing down means something's wrong. And one day, your body starts complaining loudly, and you call it stress, and you push through because that's what got you where you are today. My guest today is Laurel Van Der Toon, a psychologist and a trauma specialist who works with high achievers at exactly this intersection. No better person to talk to. The place where performance meets the nervous system. The place where identity and biology are no longer separate conversations. She's going to explain what is exactly happening inside the person who looks like they're holding everything together and what it takes not just to rest, but genuinely rewire. Let's get to it. Laurel, thank you so much for joining us today on Unsealing You. Most women listening didn't burn out the way up. They burned out after they became someone everyone depends on. And you mentioned this is a psychological tipping point where what made someone successful starts working against them. What actually changes in that moment? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

It can be a really terrifying time because you've gotten so far doing it this way, right? And when that stops working, you don't have any other tools. So I get a lot of people that st come to me and and they genuinely they feel so vulnerable. They're so scared because they're burnt out or almost burnt out. They have people counting on them and they sometimes for the first time in their lives don't know what to do, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Yeah, and they can't keep going with the the way that things have been going. And also, who are they if they're not doing everything?

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Yeah. Who am I without achieving? Who am I without work? Who am I without being the reliable one? Wow. Who am I without achieving?

SPEAKER_01 2:54

I want you to stay with that question for a moment because I have to ask it, not out loud, although it is out loud, and not in any language that's clean, because I've felt it. I've wondered it myself. And if you're honest, you probably have too. In the work I do with high performers, I call this the identity merger. The moment when what you do and who you are become the same sentence. And it doesn't happen all at once. It happens through years of a system quietly signaling your value is your output, your safety is your usefulness. That's the trust tax, working at its deepest level. Not in the hours you gave, in the identity you rebuilt around giving them. And the reason burnout at this stage feels so terrifying. The reason people come to professionals like Laurel barely able to name what they're feeling is that stopping isn't just exhausting. It feels like disappearing. And that's not a character flaw. That is what the system built. So, what are the earliest signs that someone has crossed that line but hasn't named it yet? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Uh I see three kind of manifestations. Everyone's a little different, but they're either gonna notice it in their body, like their body's gonna start complaining louder than usual. They might have more racing thoughts or more intrusive thoughts than usual. And they might be more emotional and just feel a little more raw than usual. It's usually one of those three or a combo of those three. And it feels subtle at first, but don't ignore it. I know that high achievers are really used to just pushing through and you know, oh, I'll take care of myself on Sunday or whatever on my, you know, one week vacation. But I I would encourage you to try and be more finely attuned to what's going on because your your body, your mind, your emotions will tell you.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Three signals body, thoughts, emotion. And the most dangerous thing about all three for the high performer is that they're easy to explain away. Racing thoughts, you have a big project. More emotion than usual, you're tired. Aches and pains, you're not as young as you used to be. High achievers are extraordinarily creative in explaining their symptoms out of existence because the alternative, naming that something is wrong, feels like admitting that the system has won. And here is what I want you to hear. Noticing it is not a weakness. It's the first act of redesign. The trust text doesn't care whether you notice it or not, it keeps compounding either way. What naming does, what bringing these signals into a language does, is it gives you a lever. You cannot redesign what was never described. So if you recognize yourself in any of these three signals, that's not a problem. That's data. Can you give me an example of what some of the intrusive uh thoughts might look like? How you might feel it in your body?

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Yeah, some of those intrusive thoughts, like I just can't do this anymore, or I'm a failure, or what does this even matter? Like they're they're so personal to the person, whatever they hold most dear, they start having thoughts or feelings that feel scary because they're new. And then as far as the physical symptoms, more aches and pains, um, that would be an early sign. And and some of that is just, you know, as we go on living our lives, our bodies have more aches and pains. But certainly any new or worsening autoimmands, we particularly want to look at those. The psychoneuroimmunology of trauma and burnout is an area of passion of mind. I know that's like a big nerdy word, but it basically means your mental health has a direct relationship with how active your immune system is. And if your mental health and kind of neurological health is not great and there's a lot of inflammation, you are exponentially more likely to have an autoimmune condition or to have a worsening of an underlying condition like diabetes or asthma or any you know skin conditions. There's a very direct link. Our current medical system is set up so all the specialties are very siloed. You know, go you go to the podiatrist for your foot, you go to the gastroenterologist for your stomach, but everything is so intertwined. So when I say psychoneuroimmunology, it is just how does your psychological makeup manifest in your body and in your immune responses to prolonged stress?

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Yes, and I could see that. So I want to name what Laurel just did because it matters for this conversation. She described a medical system that is siloed. Specialists who treat the foot, then specialists who treat the stomach, specialists who treat the skin, each in isolation, never asking what connects them. Does that sound familiar? Organizations work in the same way. You have the HR silo, the performance management silo, the LD silo, and none of them are asking the structural question. Why does the same person keep catching everything that falls? The trust tax operates in the gap between those silos. It is never formally assigned, never officially recognized. And so it's never officially treated. But the body is keeping the score. The autoimmune response, the inflammation, the aches that seem unrelated, those are not separate problems. They are one problem being expressed in every system at once. The organization's failure to redesign became your body's problem to solve. And the body will keep trying to tell you until you listen or until it can't anymore. When we're talking about trauma versus high performance, in my world, high performers are praised for being maybe the calm one or the one that worked the longest or the reliable one or the one who can handle anything. At what point does that stop being a strength? Sort of extending to what you've already talked about, and it becomes a trauma response.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

When it's gotten to the point where it persists only when you completely detach from self. Now there are people that are strong and persistent and ambitious that stay connected to self and their own needs and their, you know, what their body needs, what they need emotionally. But when you've developed a reputation for being that person, then that identity kind of like supersedes any actual connection and awareness to the body. It becomes skipping lunch is the norm. And listen, I know that skipping lunch is the norm for a lot of people. It shouldn't be, right? But when you feel a prone of disconnection from your body, from your emotions, that is the the check engine light.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

So you named skipping lunch. So you no longer feel hungry. Yeah. Um that sort of thing. What are some other things that you see have seen in your patients that shows that they're disconnected? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Um real difficult time settling. That, you know, even if they do the bedtime routine, which usually they don't, but you know, even if they, you know, the lights start dimming and they put away screens and they read for half an hour, which like the ideal, but how many of us actually are able to do it? Even if they do that, they can't settle. Even if they're on vacation, even if they're sitting by the pool with a friend and a drink, like there's still this undercurrent of anxious activity that keeps going. They can logically know they are okay and it's calm and there's nothing that needs their attention, but their body completely disagrees.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Yeah. Sitting by the pool, drink in hand, your best friend beside you. And still, underneath all of it, something's running. That undercurrent, that low hum of anxious activity that doesn't switch off. In my framework, I call what feeds that hum the vigilance pattern. When you've been the person the system routes everything to for months, for years, your nervous system stops believing the quiet. Because in your experience, the quiet has always been temporary. Something was always about to land, the second shoe about to drop. And so your system stays ready, even when there's nothing to be ready for. And this is not anxiety as a personality trait. This is anxiety as an organizational artifact. The system trained your body to stay on. And now you're on a Tuesday afternoon vacation, perfectly safe, but your body doesn't believe it. Rest does not fix this because rest is not the problem. The pattern is, and patterns require redesign, not recovery. You've got this. I can relate to that because I know there are days when I get done with work five, six, sometimes at seven, and I am wired.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Yep. Yep. Yeah. Listen, it's fine if it happens sometimes. If it's happening every day, I'm concerned. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

So this is an example of when you're being you're disconnected and perhaps overextended. What are some of the things that you can do to kind of connect with yourself? And I would think that number one, recognizing it is the first step.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Yeah. And stop overriding. Like, you know, people that skip lunch, it's not that they're not hungry. It's that they're deciding something else is more important than that hunger, right? So, what are some of the things you can do? They're honestly small, but it all comes back to mindfulness, which I know has become such a buzzword and a hashtag, right? But it mindfulness is truly anything that brings you into the present moment. So we could do mindfulness right now. And I just focus on looking at the microphone or looking at the camera or looking at your face and just being there in the moment. I'll get to the emails and to the to-do list and the dishes and whatever. I'll get to that later, but not mentally already being in the future doing those things or worrying about those things.

(Cont.) Wired Wrong: The Corporate Burnout Your Body Has Been Trying to Tell You About

SPEAKER_00 13:46

So as much as we can bring ourselves into the present moment, there's a saying that anxiety exists in the future and depression exists in the past, and balance exists in this moment. Even if it's uncomfortable, the present moment isn't always comfortable. Sometimes it's deeply uncomfortable. And we've become increasingly creative in fight figuring out ways to not experience that discomfort, right? Um, so anything that brings you into the present and kind of grounds you in here and now, and any exercise, as much as you can tolerate exercises in self-compassion, which again, achievers have this kind of allergy to. They're like, Yeah, I don't want to do that. That sounds, that sounds really, you know, woo-woo. And like, how's that gonna get me to our Q2 goals? I get it. I get it. And if you want to increase your capacity, that's the best way to do it.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

You know, and I think it's not only the capacity of you, but your team.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Because if you have sort of a self-loathing, which means that to me, the opposite of compassion, you're probably gonna have that same loathing towards the people on your team.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Yeah. Well, I mean, the saying as above, so below, your attitude towards yourself, towards work, towards balance, towards meeting your own needs, they pick up on it. They absolutely know. And sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is say, Hey, you know what? I know we had a meeting set for two. I haven't eaten, I'd like to start at 210. See you then. Yeah, that is leadership. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

And it's it communicates a lot to your direct reports. Like, hey, I care. Did you eat? Right. It's funny. I when I was acting as a sales leader, the fastest way for me to be upset with you is if we don't go eat lunch. If we work through lunch, it's not gonna be my sugar level is like I'm gonna be cranky.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

And you don't want me cranky at you.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

So let's eat.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

The other thing I'll say, and like your your audience is like smart, accomplished people. So I I don't want anyone's intelligence to be offended uh to be insulted here. But if you need more hours in the day, you must exercise. Time is elastic, time is not a fixed construct. And if you exercise the mental clarity and space, the reset to your nervous system that exercise provides will make you efficient to the point where it will make up for the time you spent exercising. You'll feel better and you'll sleep better. So there are zero drawbacks to exercise, except for the fact that it can be uncomfortable at times and it can be difficult to motivate yourself. But it is the one thing that I prescribe to everyone I work with. And there's actually some guidance. I'm gonna call it prescription guidance. And I don't have medication prescribing privileges, but I do have diagnosing and um I have some medical privileges. And exercise is for everyone, even if you have some kind of physical limitation. There is no physical limitation I will accept as a reason to not move in some way, whatever is available to you. If we're just doing neck stretches, if we're just doing like jaw exercises or facial exercises, it still matters. Chair, I still want to see you doing some strength training for your arms, right? If your arm is in a sling, let's do some squats, right? And of course, there are certain times where a medical professional would tell you not to, like post op or certain your body adjusting, but prescription guidance on what type of exercise to do. There's actually some great research on this. If you are someone who skews depressed or kind of like a low, numbed nervous system, bad news is the prescription is cardio. Getting your heart rate up, getting your blood flow and kind of up leveling your nervous system. And it's highly effective. It outperforms prescription antidepressants if you consistently exercise and do cardio if you're depressed. I know it's really hard to motivate, but again, progress, not perfection. Get an accountability buddy and find a kind of cardio that is somewhat fun. Because if it's not fun, you're not gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Right. If you're if you skew more anxious, cardio is still good, but we we want to focus more on building strength and working with resistance and kind of downleveling the nervous system. Also, like feeling strong feels great. You know, is there a better feeling than feeling strong? All the leaders listening are like, yeah, I love feeling strong. Yeah. So let's intentionally make ourselves strong, particularly for women who are women of a certain age. It's really good for our bone health as well. And um, and if you're someone who is, you know, a lucky winner of a combo of anxiety and depression, you want to do a combo of cardio and strength building. Now, this does not need to be an hour-long gym commitment. Like if you're doing 20 minutes, that's so much better than none. Yeah. If you're just even taking like laps around the office between meetings, one or two laps, great. I that's so much better. That's what we call it's called neat, non-exercise active time. A lot of smart devices are measuring neat more, but you just build in a little more neat because, like I said, the mental clarity and efficiency and your cognitive capacity expands so much when we have moved throughout the day that you will get more work done and you'll feel better after it's done.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

So I could see where um it's not just carving out time, but it's reserving time for that exercise. Now, one of the things that my audience may be thinking, or the folks that are listening, are thinking, hey, you know what? Here's the deal. I I may find it difficult to carve out that time because responsibility keeps finding me. I get it. How do you you as uh, you know, how what would you recommend to that high achieving person to get to that exercise? And what's happening psychologically that makes them want to keep picking up these responsibilities?

SPEAKER_00 20:06

It's a default. It is a nervous system pattern where like you get that ping, you get that slack message, and then you it's a subconscious choice that you are going to respond. That, yep, that's the priority. You can change your priorities, but you don't have to. I'm I'm not here to tell anyone to care about work less. Of course not. People care about their work. I love my work. I care very deeply about it. I don't want to prioritize it less. I do have great boundaries with it, which makes it very sustainable for me. But I love my treadmill desk. And that is the first thing I do. I'm I'm one of those annoying people. I don't have the phone in the bedroom. I wake up and get my breakfast smoothie, maybe spend a few minutes on my balcony, truly before I pick up my phone, all that before I pick up my phone, which is, you know, all of three minutes to like get a breakfast smoothie and sit outside for a second. And then I get on my treadmill and I open my computer and I start going through the inbox and the messages and all of that. And I'm I'm working, but I'm also moving and I feel great after. So, you know, I I understand the time crunch and not wanting to reserve an hour completely just for exercise. There are workarounds, there are ways. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

So my daughter said something to me about that that tread under the dust treadmill. I'm like, hmm, sound like a great Mother's Day present.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

They're not expensive. You can get a good one for like 120 bucks, you know. You could get the state of the art one for 500, but whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So it's on the other side of my desk. I have the side I sit on when I'm seeing clients or doing podcasts or, you know, meeting with my staff. I have I have a small team of trauma therapists. And but you know, first thing is the desk in the up position, and and I'm moving. Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

So a lot of burnout advice is all about rest more, take vacations, set boundaries. Yeah. And it sometimes doesn't stick. Why doesn't it stick? Stick and because what can you do to deal with that deeper patterns of trauma?

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Yeah, it doesn't stick because there's zero mindset change, right? We we can change behavior, but that doesn't change that automatic prioritization, right? And it's not that work needs to be less important, but your needs need to come much higher up on the priority list. And you can still be highly, you will be more effective at work if you put your needs higher up. A vacation will not fix burnout. That is a common thinking trap. That, oh, I'll just go and rest for a week. Well, guess what? You're gonna come back to a crazy inbox. Something will have happened while you're gone, and you're gonna go your nervous system will go right back into the pattern of fight or flight that it's always been in. And there will be no change. I'm not saying that week's not enjoyable. That week was probably great, but that it it wasn't the solution to the problem.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Yeah. So I can see as a person, we can um we're always working within a system. So we have to change our system. And then hopefully the broader system changes as a result of our our changes. Have you seen that with your clients at all?

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Yeah. I mean, systems theory is very useful modality in therapy. It's not just you, it's the family you grew up in, it's the family you created, it's the culture of your workplace, it's the community where you live, it's the governing bodies that influence laws and enforcement of certain ideals where you live or or don't. Um, looking at yourself in a system, it's really easy to see how we develop these beliefs about self and these skewed priorities. Because hard work and self-sacrifice are rewarded, particularly in women, that the, you know, the the female archetype is generous and nurturing and not selfish. And well, guess who that serves? Yeah. Yeah. Not the woman. No, no. So, I mean, everyone's heard the adage you put on your own mask before helping others. And it it really is that way, but it's really not that simple because everyone's gonna need different forms of self-care and self-nurturing and prioritizing of self at different seasons of their life. It could be that you want to focus on eating more nutritious food. So maybe you start with committing to eating lunch every single day. That's it. We'll start with that. And once that habit is routinized and solidified, then we go to the next thing. You know, I said that the reason a vacation or resting more doesn't work or doesn't stick is because there's no mindset change. But the back door to mindset change is behavior change, consistent over time. You don't have to change your mindset today. That's gonna be really difficult. You need to see the dividends of the behavior change and see that it does actually help and you do actually feel gradually better. Don't take my word for it, just do it and see that it works.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Kind of like an experiment.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Yeah, exactly. And there are gonna be some things that help more than others, and it's really personal to the individual instead of well.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

I was gonna say that I could see this as being more sustainable and sustainable for the long term, and I could see where that performance is going to be more psychologically and behaviorally better to create that change.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Yeah. Instead of a New Year's resolution this year, I committed to doing month-long challenges because I knew that I had a year with a lot of travel and a lot of kind of periods of inconsistency. And I was like, I don't want to pick a resolution that I won't be able to commit to for an entire year. I want to, you know, as I look at the month ahead, say, oh, okay, this is gonna be a good month to like I can do 10,000 steps a day or, you know, something like that, right? Whereas if I committed to doing 10,000 steps a day for the entire year and then I broke my foot, well, then I can't do that, right? Yeah. We usually know a lot more about what the coming month is gonna look like. So maybe you approach it like that. Like add things in and see how they go and how you feel for uh, you know, commit to one period of time. We're not asking you to commit indefinitely to perfect self-care. That's impossible.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Right. Yeah. I I think that that is a lot of really good advice right there. Is there any other advice you'd like to add on to that?

SPEAKER_00 26:31

People don't like when someone changes. There will be tacit or explicit resistance from others who have benefited from you sacrificing for years or decades. And they will get increasingly creative in their protest. You do it anyway. You do it till the protest dies down. It's not your job to keep them happy, it's your job to make sure that you're gonna be able to do this sustainably for years or decades to come. And if it doesn't feel sustainable right now, it's not sustainable. Right. So we figure out a way to make it sustainable, and that means making some changes, and other people may not like them. Right. The protest is the proof.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

When you start putting your name on your own calendar, when you start saying, that's not mine to carry, and people push back, that tells you everything about how long they've been benefiting from that arrangement. It's not personal, it's structural. The system built itself around your willingness to catch, and now you're redesigning. Of course the system resists. Systems always resist redesign. Here's what I know. The resistance does not mean you're wrong. It means you've started. The most regulated person in the room wins, not because they fight the hardest, but because they hold the clearest. They do not need the system's approval to know what's theirs and what's not. You do not need permission to stop paying the tax that was never declared. Well, I feel like this was very powerful. And for any final pieces of information that you'd like to add before we close up our our time together.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Yeah. We didn't touch on when we talked about food, but we didn't talk about substances. You know, I see a pattern of people going go, go, go during the day, and then they can't wind down, so they have a few drinks. I like to say that's like buying on credit. Don't do it, don't do it. The bill comes due. It is an effective short-term solution that has really long-term consequences.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

So you're buying on credit by getting the long-term consequences.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

You got to pay interest on those drinks.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Okay. So what that is a very good concept. And thank you for saying that. What are some of the things that they can do to slow it down so they're not buying on credit?

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Yeah. Again, moving their body, maybe stretching, reading, you know, things that are less stimulating. And it's also okay if it is hard to down regulate your nervous system. Like it's we're not meant like on a bicycle, if you go from 10th gear to first gear, the chain falls off. It takes time, you know. So it's okay if we need like a wind down. Give yourself that wind down rather than trying to do it chemically.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

There you go. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for joining us on the Unsealing You. I really appreciate you being here, the message that you bring, the focus that you have in what you're doing in the world. So thank you so much. Happy to be here. Laurel gave us something rare. A clinical explanation for a feeling most performers have been told is just stress. It's not just stress, it's a nervous system that's trained over years by a system that rewarded your reliability without ever asking what it was costing you. Your body learned that being needed is being safe, that slowing down is a signal something has gone wrong. That the undercurrent of anxious activity is just what life feels like. And now you know that you are not who you are. That is what the system made. The trust tax is not paid in hours. It's paid in a nervous system load, an autoimmune response, and the identity you built around never stopping. I'm there. I've been there, I'm there. And it does not stop compounding just because you decide the rest. What stops it is a redesign, naming the load, identifying what was never yours to carry, building a structure that does not route everything to the most capable person in the room and call it a compliment. If today shifted something, if you recognize a signal in your body that you've been overriding, or a role you've been playing that no one formally assigned to you, that recognition is the beginning. You don't have to change everything today. Start with lunch, start with one conversation, start with one thing you've been caring that was never formally yours. That is the sealing moving. I'm Dr. Natalie Luke. This is the Unsealing You podcast. Share this with someone who needs to hear it, and I'll see you the next time.